ZF Ecomat/Ecolife Transmission Script 1.00 RC9

midtown292 schrieb:

I am used to in real life. I am not used to buses being govern to only 75 kph, usually it is 100-105 kph in the United States.

I agree with that most ZF Ecomat buses here in the UK in the 1980s to 1990s were geared for high speeds (the Leyland Lion was reported to be capable of 85 MPH, as was the Lynx!!) although with age deterioration you can expect about 55 to 60 MPH from such buses. I read recently that some former-Lothian Leyland Olympians could do about 49 MPH but this (I think) is because of the speed limiter and not the gearbox. The MANs (btw do you say it like "Man" or "em ay en") in depicted in OMSI wear geared to 70 kph because this is the maximum legal speed for city buses in German (at least in Berlin anyway) and I guess BVG didn't trust its drivers lol. Hong Kong buses with Voiths (and ZF) are similarly limited although the ZFs by electronic means (at least the 6HPs in the Enviro500s). Alexander Dennis proved this by taking a HK-spec to Australia and reporting in the article that they altered it so it could reach 100 km/h and keep up with the other traffic on the highways. They said they even overtook some cars!

SEPTA's buses in my area with the 6 speed transmission could up to 85-90 MPH. The Detroit diesels could yeild about 85mph, but the ISLs could go up to 90mph! Ofcourse they will have to remove the engine speed governor though. Every once in a while, the shop guys does work on the engine and they forget the reset the speed governor on the engine. There's a buddy of mine who driven a ZF 6 speed and it went way over 80 mph, of course it will take an while though but it demonstrates what the gearing can do.

krtz07 schrieb:

...

Have you got a windows live messenger adress or skype or anything, where I talk with you from this settings?
Because I can not write correctly.

-OR-
Please write to me a gerbox_ZF_4HP-500.txt file with these values, for I understand and see the settings.

Gear 1 switch on to "Gear 2 converter" at 10kph on 1000 rpm. Without Gear 1 converter. Gear 2 Converter has arriving on 650 rpm.
"Gear 2 Converter" switch on to "Gear 2 Locked up" at 18kph on 1100rpm, baut Gear 2 locked up has arriving on 900 rpm. "Gear 2 Locked Up" has going to 1850rpm and 30kph and switch on to Gear 3.
Gear 3 has arriving on 1100rpm at 30kph and going up to 1500rpm and swtch on to gear 4 at 38kph.
This bus top speed is 65kph.

I made from this bus an audio recording, where this gear program is working, for you understand and help toyou, to make this gear program.
http://cid-9a5b7e797ef12925.office.live.com/self.aspx/%C3%9Aj%20mappa/Ikarus%20280%20BPI-762%20part1.mp3
http://cid-9a5b7e797ef12925.office.live.com/self.aspx/%c3%9aj%20mappa/Ikarus%20280%20BPI-762%20part2.mp3

bkvbusz schrieb:

krtz07 schrieb:

...

Have you got a windows live messenger adress or skype or anything, where I talk with you from this settings?
Because I can not write correctly.

-OR-
Please write to me a gerbox_ZF_4HP-500.txt file with these values, for I understand and see the settings.

Gear 1 switch on to "Gear 2 converter" at 10kph on 1000 rpm. Without Gear 1 converter. Gear 2 Converter has arriving on 650 rpm.
"Gear 2 Converter" switch on to "Gear 2 Locked up" at 18kph on 1100rpm, baut Gear 2 locked up has arriving on 900 rpm. "Gear 2 Locked Up" has going to 1850rpm and 30kph and switch on to Gear 3.
Gear 3 has arriving on 1100rpm at 30kph and going up to 1500rpm and swtch on to gear 4 at 38kph.
This bus top speed is 65kph.

I made from this bus an audio recording, where this gear program is working, for you understand and help toyou, to make this gear program.
http://cid-9a5b7e797ef12925.office.live.com/self.aspx/%C3%9Aj%20mappa/Ikarus%20280%20BPI-762%20part1.mp3
http://cid-9a5b7e797ef12925.office.live.com/self.aspx/%c3%9aj%20mappa/Ikarus%20280%20BPI-762%20part2.mp3

Just send me a pm, and I will give you my msn messager screename

krtz07 schrieb:

harry7430 schrieb:

um... done a great job in gear shifting when stopping the bus and also the gear selector
but the suitable rpm for upshift(maybe the gear ratio? i don't know..) is much more similar to reality for 0.65 alpha
like maximum for gear 2 should be at lease 45... sorry for my poor English..

The older buses (1989 Neoplan An440s - EZ), which has the ZF 4HP-590 transmission operating out of SEPTA, had a 4.67 final drive ratio. Gear shifting was like this 7mph lock up in the 1st gear, 12mph first to second gear, 26 mph for the second gear shift point, and 37 mph for the 3rd gear shift point. I was told that the Man buses had an higher ratio, so I've added it onto the file. I could just revert these values back to something which I am used to in real life. I am not used to buses being govern to only 75 kph, usually it is 100-105 kph in the United States.

how about the rpm for gear change? i'd thought it would be a little bit higher than expected..

and i still have questions about the mod:
1. kickdown for retarding gear change is less obvious now..
2. if i floor the pedal in gear 3(relatively low rpm), should the gear be shifted to 2nd hydraulic ?
(for this point, 0.65alpha surely achieved this)

sorry for asking so many questions.. i really love the ZF mod

Ok I will revert the consistfile back to the values found in 0.65. Also after listening to this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzqeh2PCY00 . The Zfers overseas are way different then what I am used to, it seems that the entire 1st gear gear is unlocked then goes into 2nd which is locked up? well I will do different variants of the ZF with many different types of shifting patterns. Mind you, these will mainly be files that can be appended to different buses which fits the ZF shifting profile. Originally this mod was aimed towards something which I am familiar with. From looking at the video, the ZF 5hp-500 on the Man Sl200 is a different variant. Hopefully with the help from powerbycng an Man SL200 or Sd200 version of the ZF could be in the works.

- Got partial throttle in between gears working in verison 0.67 - It now shifts more realistic!
- Reverted shifting values back to the way they were in 0.65, however retained the 2.80 in first gear
- Created another ZF script for a more familiar variant of the ZF to the Europeans, going to add a torque converter unlock to all of the gears coming in version 0.67b. (To look for the other variant, look for bus SD200 - SD83 - ZF - 2 Variant) in the bus selector while in OMSI. Script is based off of 0.66 with adjustments with bkvbusz's assistence.
-Added an throttle governor to 1st gear, can be disabled via the consist file under throttleinjection_governor and set it to one. Just wanted to see if it was possible in the simulator.

http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles.info/OMSI/MAN_SD83_ZF_0.67a.zip

krtz07 schrieb:

This is the very start of the 4HP-500 4 speed transmission mod, started working on it several weeks ago, the transmission has a torque converter in both the 1st and second gear, and the transmission goes straight into lock up on initial acceleration, however if the bus slows down from 30km/h down to 10km/h, the torque converter will lock up. Some major adjustments has been done to the script. Top speed is around 95 km/h, the transmission is based off of that from our older Neoplan buses.

Adds bus "SD200 - SD83 - ZF" into the simulator.

Extract contents to the SD200 folder which is located in the Vehicles directory of the OMSI folder. Vehicles\MAN_SD200

Download
http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles.info/OMSI/MAN_SD83_ZF_0.66.zip

Hello!

I downloaded it and wanted to select your bus, but there is always an error message, when i want to select the bus. OMSI doesn't react anymore and i must close it with the windows task manager. I installed it, like you have explained above. But i don't know what's going wrong. Can ya help me?

maybe you forgot a file to put in to a folder.

Thanks for the recent release which provides a much more realistic gears shifting!

However, when I tried to lower the rpm for switching up from gear 2 Lockup to gear 3 (and gear 3 to gear 4 as well), no observable differences were found when keeping acceleration on the bus.

It seems that the time of switching gears is not solely controlled by sth like antrieb_getr_autoSwUpMinSpd4 / antrieb_getr_autoSwUpMaxSpd4. I am guessing there are some other values controlling the time of switching gears.

May I know how can the time of swtiching gears be controlled in the current release? Thanks very much.

Once again, I love your ZF mod a lot!

Currently progressing on the ZF mod, figure out how the sound simple in OMSI works. I tried asking something on youtube who added an 2nd gear sound, but my post was listed as spam.

On a serious note, done some drastic changes to the ZF script.

Both Variant I and II of the ZF transmission now shares the same script.


The variants should be in reversed but since I know Variant I better I've decided to keep it as Variant I.

The Difference between the Variants are:
-Variant II is based off of the ZF which are used on buses made prior to 1986. The 1st gear on the Variant II is longer at 2.80 as the ratio. Going to confer with PowerbyCNG more on this version of the ZF.
-Variant I is the version which I know the most and it's circa is between 1986-1993 or so.

With the help of powerbycng, I have added an unlock to 3rd and 4th gear, now when the ZF downshifts, it will downshift into unlock first then downshift into the preceding gear. Much more realistic downshifting then before, now the bus will not suddenly brake harder while slowing down.

I have reactivated the retarder, now the retarder kicks in more gradually, and since the gears are unlocked during downshifting, the deceleration is now way smoother. Ran 10 trips using this mod in various routes such as "Berlin", and "bad Kinzau", not one passenger complained about my driving.

Reworked the up shift points in all gears, for now, the transmission will shift between 1750-1850 RPM. Before the release of the next version, I might incorporate an setting in he consist file to change the mod on the ZF to change the shifting points from Medium to either Economy shifting or Performance shifting. I remember a mechanic told me that the ZF has three shifting profiles.

The 1st lock up has been reworked, if the throttle is not pressed all of the way down, the bus will not rapidly lock up.

Changed the final drive back to 4.74 (Variant I), the script is tailored towards this ratio - more to come below.

Edited the RPM transition rate while the bus is shifting gears. Before, the RPM change was extremely rapid, now it is more gradual much like prototype. The edits are tailored to that of an 4.74 final drive ratio. So any alterations to this final drive ratio may require some changes to the script.

Started to add some ZF variant I downshift sounds ZF variant I. Now during the downshift, the ZF will hiss a bit but I may tie that into the retarder.

krtz07 schrieb:

Currently progressing on the ZF mod

...

Amazing work, thank you so much for the effort! You're doing a great job scripting, keep it up!
Much appreciated

Wow, good news! I'm looking forward to the next release!

G'day all,

I have provided krtz07 with some sound bytes of the old-school ZF 4 HP 500 gearbox on the MAN SL 200. Once he has finalised the scripting, I will fine-tune the calibration to make the gearshifting realistic. After that is done, we should be in business!

Thanks for the good news, good luck with the project.

Even the 5HP-500 is in development? Thanks for doing that cool work, keep it up!


Here are some sounds of an (european) O405 with ZF5-HP500 gear box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ-s8XtVgP0

The ZF 4 HP 500 for the MAN D92 would be great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5qd6Kge3Rw

I would like something like this. Also ZF4HP500.

Yes,

4HP-500 Variant I
5HP-500
6HP-590

Are WIP, I will soon going to send Variant II version over to powerbycng for an look at and adjustments. I might release the other two tonight only as an demonstration for you guys to take an look at. As mentioned above, the ZF script has drastically been reworked, so any bugs or errors present in the yester-version may not be present in this version.

Before the shifting pattern on the ZF variant I was 1C, 1L, 2C, 3L, and 4L. Again, the L represents the mechanical side of the transmission while locked up. Now the pattern has drastically been changed, it is 1C, 1L, 2C, 2L, 3L. 4L. And while downshifting from gear 4, it is 4L, 4c, 3c, 2c, 1c.

I know that the shifting pattern on the Variant II is 1c, 1l, 2c, 2l, 3c, 3l, 4c, 4l. But I will let powerbycng make adjustments, I pretty much left the consist values the same. That is a lot of switching and if the values are not right on, each shift can be extremely violent. So I've decided to keep the older version of the ZF transmission separate from the slightly newer version of it.

The retader now kicks in more gradually as well. But I have to run the debug version of OMSI to determined that is really the case though.

krtz07 schrieb:

I might release the other two tonight only as an demonstration for you guys to take an look at.

You will upload it so that everyone in this forum will be able to download and test it?

All in due time, I did put out an upload but had to recall it back since everytime when I played it, I found something else new about the scripting in OMSI. Currently progressing more on the ZF transmission. Now currently have the sounds working on the Ecomat 6Hp-592 with the Man D2866 Engine. Gear whine, upshift sounds, etc. All I have to say is that bus is powerful, yet it rides smooth and sounds smooth. Currently there is no signs of that the bus ever had an Voith transmission script or sounds. The 6 speed Transmission is on the D92 bus. I've been driving 4 trips in the route called "berlin" and no accidents. My driving average went from 20% up to 93%. I am pretty happy with the changes made to it. It sounds much simliar to our units here in Philadelphia with the 6 speed ZF. I would like to add, this is done for anyone who would like to use this setup on their add on buses to make things easier.


The realistic version of the ZF 4 speed transmission which would be used on the SD83 chassis on the chassis would be the earlier verison of the ZF.

The 5 speed will be the Ecomat I made after 1985. it would be placed on the SD86 bus. That is only 50% completed.

Also been progressing on the 4 speed version variant I of the ZF transmission as well. I've been working on the Variant I of the transmission. It shits way more realistic. I am going to let powerbycng handle whatever needs to be done to the earlier version of the ZF transmission (Variant II) .

krtz07 schrieb:

All in due time

Just wanted to say your great work is much appreciated, and I hope you release them soon, or even, just focusing on one at a time so we can try (and test!) at least one

krtz07 schrieb:

[...] Now currently have the sounds working on the Ecomat 6Hp-592 with the Man D2866 Engine. Gear whine, upshift sounds, etc. All I have to say is that bus is powerful, yet it rides smooth and sounds smooth.[...]

You are the best

I look forward to try it. I hope you will release them very soon

Great News that you made a 6 Speed ZF on the D92.

And then with sounds, too.

I got the Earlier version of the ZF Ecomat I - Pre 1986 sound whine somewhat function able in OMSI. I have not really touched much of that consist values in the yet as I know powerbycng wants to make it shift as realistic as possible. Once he makes his adjustments, I will applied these adjustments to the sound files, and then we will be in business.