[RELEASED] MAN D92 Upgrade Pack - LANDMARK RELEASE v3.0

poweredbycng schrieb:

ediblechickenwing schrieb:

I really like it, nice job! The only thing I would say is that 100km/h feels a bit too fast, and also the noises that the gearbox and engine make at that speed sound unhealthy and like it shouldn't be going that fast... perhaps 90km/h would be better?
Nethertheless, I still like it. Only thing left now would be changing the engine sounds to the newer engine lmao

Have you ever heard the sound of a Mercedes-Benz O 405-series or MAN NL xx3 bus travelling at 100km/h? The axle and engine noises sound remarkably similar to how the D92 turbo sounds, surprisingly.

Also, you should not be travelling at any more than, say, 70km/h on most of the available maps unless you're a VERY skilled driver (and the police aren't looking your way!). In real life, the buses in OMSI have rather wooly handling at over 90km/h due to the way that their steering systems and suspensions are set up. Modern buses such as the Mercedes-Benz Citaro / OC 500-series overcome these problems and can drive safely at 100km/h or more without any 'wandering'.

No I haven't, only in coaches. I've heard Volvo B7RLE's at 90km/h (and it is remarkably quiet and calm because of the 6 speed gearbox), I've heard an Enviro 300 with a 5 speed Allison gearbox limited to 80km/h which sounds not too bad, and I've heard Dennis Darts with 4 speed Allison gearbox at around 80-90km/h depending on running gear which sound like they're going to blow up if you go any faster. Most of our city buses are limited to no more than 90km/h as standard (some less unless you specify higher running gear); the only modern city buses I know of in my region that are uprated to 100km/h are some Enviro 300's which could not keep up with the timetable at 90km/h. I think we also have 4 Enviro 200s with MCV Evolution bodywork that can do 90 or even 100km/h in my town, I'm not certain as I've not been on one but I've seen one whiz past us doing 80km/h which is about standard for them.

I guess you're right though, especially with Voith. It would sound like that. I don't tend to drive at 100 in OMSI unless I am late and need to make up time, but I don't like going that fast because it feels unstable like you said. 90km/h feels better though, but usually 80km/h is enough.

By the way, about your comment not needing to drive more than 70 on the OMSI maps... in the UK we have a tendency to accelerate until we get to what feels like a reasonable speed for the situation which can often be that or more if there's the opportunity to, rather than sticking to speed limits.. hehe.

Did not even know that Allisions were even used overseas, We have NABIS 416s around here which only has a 4 speed Allison transmission, at 88km/h or 55mph, it sounds like it is about to blow up! Admittely I never ridden on any buses with the Voith transmission, it is mainly ZF and Allison around my region in the united states.

Plenty of Allison autos worldwide, including here in Australia.

I'd hazard a guess that Allison transmissions are the most popular automatic transmissions used in city bus and refuse collection applications worldwide.

I agree with ediblechickenwing about the speed in the UK, for most motorists in general, not just buses! I have even seen a truck doing about 40 round (more like across :p) a roundabout!! As for Allisons are they American? We do have rubbish truck (bin lorries) with Allison transmissions here, the Dennis Eagle Pheonix which sounds a bit like a Dart!

midtown292 schrieb:

I agree with ediblechickenwing about the speed in the UK, for most motorists in general, not just buses! I have even seen a truck doing about 40 round (more like across :p) a roundabout!! As for Allisons are they American? We do have rubbish truck (bin lorries) with Allison transmissions here, the Dennis Eagle Pheonix which sounds a bit like a Dart!

Yes, they are American. Owned by GM.

RELEASED: Version 2.10

Changes:
* Minor tweaks to the upshift and downshift points
* Implemented torque restriction in 1st and 2nd gears
* Restored torque curve as provided by MAN AG

Known issues:
* No retarder noise after upshift into 2nd, 3rd or 4th gears while travelling downhill (contraint in the simulator)
* Occasional slippage on kickdown

RELEASED: Version 2.11

Changes:
* Minor tweaks

RELEASED: Version 2.12

Changes:
* Reverted to a modified version of a previous engine calibration with torque restriction in place on the transmission

RELEASED: Version 2.13

Changes:
* Torque restriction: 20% in 1st gear, 7.5% in 2nd gear
* Changed retarder operation from type 2 to type 3 to match actual Voith DIWA.3E specifications (thanks to advice from Rüdgier)

Is this possible?

Volvo I-Shift

Front gears
14.94:1
11.73:1
9.04:1
7.09:1
5.54:1
4.35:1
3.44:1
2.70:1
2.08:1
1.63:1
1.27:1
1.00:1

Rear gears
17.48:1
3.73:1
4.02:1
3.16:1

Engine

DH12E 340 hp

Output ISO 1584 250 kW (340 hp)
at 30r/s (1800 r/m)
Torgue ISO 1585 1700Nm (173 kpm)
at 16-23 r/s (950-1400 r/m)

Source:
http://www.plaxtonelite.co.uk/pdf/B12BSpec.pdf I copy and paste info from this file...

^ We have CITY BUSES in Australia with those specifications.

Unfortunately, with each additional gear, there is additional scripting work to be done. Right now, the mainstream city bus transmissions (Voith, ZF, Allison) are my priorities.

poweredbycng is correct and would be an headache to script, however, so far the max amount of gears which i have scripted so far are 8 gears for a ZF 6 speed transmission. Right now, I am currently fine tuning the 4 speed ZF transmission. Yea the 13-14 gear transmission is possible, but from the look at the ratios, it look like a semi-automatic transmission, the problem is, the manual transmission needs to be modeled into OMSI first before implementing automatic shift points on this semi automatic. Currently, the bus script has an torque converter in place of the clutch function. Then you have to program the transmission to shift into certain gears best for the conditions such as the load, which I have no idea if OMSI supports that.

krtz07 schrieb:

poweredbycng is correct and would be an headache to script, however, so far the max amount of gears which i have scripted so far are 8 gears for a ZF 6 speed transmission. Right now, I am currently fine tuning the 4 speed ZF transmission. Yea the 13-14 gear transmission is possible, but from the look at the ratios, it look like a semi-automatic transmission, the problem is, the manual transmission needs to be modeled into OMSI first before implementing automatic shift points on this semi automatic. Currently, the bus script has an torque converter in place of the clutch function. Then you have to program the transmission to shift into certain gears best for the conditions such as the load, which I have no idea if OMSI supports that.

Okay. Good to know.

Info about transmission in Volvo:s home page:
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/na/en-us/volvogroup/Environment/going%20greener/i-shift/Pages/i-shift.aspx

But what a about engine?

The engine is easily done. It's just a matter of calibrating the torque RESTRICTION in order to make the bus drive realistically.

In city bus applications, the Volvo B12BLE/B12BLEA with its 340hp/1700Nm engine is heavily torque restricted, since the peak power and torque outputs are far higher than what is required for urban duties.

Also, remember that the i-Shift transmission in 'Auto' mode will often skip one or more gears depending on load and driving style. I don't believe that this feature would be easy to script and test.

Tested right now the Engine and the gearbox and... I LOVE IT! Specially when you start from 0 flooring the pedal and the engine revs so high and the turbo starts to whistle... it's amazing

poweredbycng schrieb:

The engine is easily done. It's just a matter of calibrating the torque RESTRICTION in order to make the bus drive realistically.

In city bus applications, the Volvo B12BLE/B12BLEA with its 340hp/1700Nm engine is heavily torque restricted, since the peak power and torque outputs are far higher than what is required for urban duties.

Also, remember that the i-Shift transmission in 'Auto' mode will often skip one or more gears depending on load and driving style. I don't believe that this feature would be easy to script and test.

Thank you about answering my questions. I will take a better look on engine files of OMSI.

Ok... but maybe after two or more years we are more wise and then may be possible to make that gearbox. But thanks.

Well it is possible via scripting, the developers were nice enough to model out an variable for acceleration or "l.l.beschleunigung" variable out for us to use. I have progressive shifting schedule enabled on some gears on my 6 speed transmission. All you need to do is specified the else if statements with different values for L.L.beschleunigung variables to have OMSI skip a gear depending on acceleration.

Currently I have it mapped out to hold the gear if acceleration is equal to or less then 0.7 km/h^2. I think the prototypical zf ecomat 592 is like that as well. Noticed on the hills going up or downhill that the transmission will hold the gear for an while longer if the bus is not accelerating to fast.

One of the characteristic differences between the ZF Ecomat transmissions and the Voith DIWA transmissions is the response when you back off of the accelerator pedal with the engine at high speed in an intermediate gear.

Voith DIWA transmissions will upshift into the next gear, often causing a violent 'thump'. ZF Ecomat transmissions will hold the gear that they are in which makes for a smooth deceleration and allows for better use of engine braking principles.

In OMSI, if I have to back off at high RPM, I will use the gear selector buttons to intentionally hold the gearbox in the gear that it is in. I would do that in real life situations too.

poweredbycng schrieb:

One of the characteristic differences between the ZF Ecomat transmissions and the Voith DIWA transmissions is the response when you back off of the accelerator pedal with the engine at high speed in an intermediate gear.

Voith DIWA transmissions will upshift into the next gear, often causing a violent 'thump'. ZF Ecomat transmissions will hold the gear that they are in which makes for a smooth deceleration and allows for better use of engine braking principles.

In OMSI, if I have to back off at high RPM, I will use the gear selector buttons to intentionally hold the gearbox in the gear that it is in. I would do that in real life situations too.

Well I should released my route pretty soon, there are some pretty steep hills in there. used those hills to see how the transmission performs, not too sure how the ZF programming schedule works though.

RELEASED: Version 2.14

Changes:
* Reverted to 5.74:1 final drive ratio
* Slowed down the road speed of reverse gear
* Fine-tuned gearchanges to suit 5.74:1 final drive
* 40% torque reduction in 1st gear, 15% in second gear to further reduce 'surging' off the mark

RELEASED: Version 2.15

Changes
* Fixed torque restriction (wrong file added to earlier archives - my fault!!!) - 30% in 1st gear, 15% in 2nd gear
* Minor adjustments to gearchanging

poweredbycng schrieb:

RELEASED: Version 2.15

Changes
* Fixed torque restriction (wrong file added to earlier archives - my fault!!!) - 30% in 1st gear, 15% in 2nd gear
* Minor adjustments to gearchanging

good job! it drives and feels wonderful! thanks very much!
but as i'm not a bus driver, i just feel the gear whine is VERY loud after 80kmh. i don't know if it's normal

Yup, it's normal.

Yes, you're right about the ZF Ecomats, the 6 speeds in our three Volvo B7RLEs will hold the gear (mostly 5th) for as long as you want. We've gone a good minute at least holding 5th gear at the very top end of it before the driver backs off a bit and lets it slip into 6th.

RELEASED: Version 2.16

Changes:
* Fixed a condition where an indecisive gearchange occurs after a minimum-speed upchange into 3rd gear