Two Questions on German Traffic Laws

1) Are right turns on red traffic signals permitted?
2) Do public transport buses have to stop at railway crossings before proceeding?

Both are fairly common in North America and I'm wondering if they are the same or different in Germany.

Thanks

In both cases: No.

Thanks for the quick response!

I guess that explains the weird looks I got from my passengers when stopping at the level crossing on Falkenseer with no train approaching

dr1980 schrieb:

1) Are right turns on red traffic signals permitted?

I think in Europe it's fairly widespread to use an additional light on the right side of the green light, with an arrow in it. The main light is red, but the small one can show green.
Maybe it's overly obvious to everyone, (it is to me) but I don't know if you knew this - since you're from the US - or how it is over there

dr1980 schrieb:

I guess that explains the weird looks I got from my passengers when stopping at the level crossing on Falkenseer with no train approaching

Stopping (or really slow down) before a railroad is a good safety precaution. What if the crossing lights don't work?

I must say that I don't understand the American rule that a red light doesn't apply for right turn traffic. Bicycles are generally allowed to ignore a red light if they make a right turn. Traffic in general claims lives every day, so in that context allowing traffic to ignore a red light is a bad habit. At a corner not far from my house that was an intersection and local citizens where complaining about dangerous traffic patterns because cars were allowed to ignore a red light on a right turn. Guess when they finally changed the situation? It took the death of 3 children (7,7 and 8 years old) before city officials took appropriate actions. But that's not the end of the story. So many people were used to make the right turn without even looking at the traffic lights, that they did noticed that the situation was changed..

In general when there's a traffic light, it's there for a good reason. It organizes the chaos we call traffic. Ignoring red lights screws things up. Most intersections in Europe contain lights for several directions so the green light for right turn traffic can stay longer on than traffic in other lanes. In The Netherlands we unfortunately don't have the red-orange light seconds before the light turns green. Although I saw at an intersection a few weeks ago with a countdown timer so you know how long you have to wait. And ofcourse a lot of intersections are transformed into round abounds to cut down on the traffic lights.

I must say that I miss the flash camera's on the simulator. Fines should be paid with your tickets selling kickbacks..

We do also have green arrows (I live in Canada), both right and left to indicate fully protected turning phases. The right turn arrows are sometimes paired with red lights to indicate a right turn on red is allowed without stopping.

At intersections in most of Canada, a right turn on red is permitted unless signed otherwise. If making a right turn on red, the driver must stop at the red traffic signal, and only proceed when there are no cars oncoming or conflicting pedestrians in their turning path. At intersections where there are specific safety issues (high pedestrian counts, sight-line issues, multiple right turn lanes etc), right turns on red will be prohibited.

Quebec was the last Province to prohibit right turns on red, their laws changed a few years back (except I believe in the city of Montreal...if you've ever driven their you'd know why! )

dr1980 schrieb:

Quebec was the last Province to prohibit right turns on red, their laws changed a few years back (except I believe in the city of Montreal...if you've ever driven their you'd know why! )

If Québec is the last province to ban right turns on reds, then why is it in Ontario, buses are turning right on reds?

Sorry, let me be more clear: they were the last Province to still have a right turn on red prohibition in place.

dr1980 schrieb:

Sorry, let me be more clear: they were the last Province to still have a right turn on red prohibition in place.

Lol no worries

Tarc schrieb:

dr1980 schrieb:

1) Are right turns on red traffic signals permitted?

I think in Europe it's fairly widespread to use an additional light on the right side of the green light, with an arrow in it. The main light is red, but the small one can show green.
Maybe it's overly obvious to everyone, (it is to me) but I don't know if you knew this - since you're from the US - or how it is over there

If you have noticed, there are "green arrows" in OMSI too.

When you are intended to do "a left turn at an intersection", stop at the stop line in the left lane (even if the traffic signal above you says "Go"), and look closely on the traffic signal pole adjacent diagonally slightly to the left across the intersection.

There is a single light casing there, which is normally "lit out".

When the oncoming traffic in the opposite direction has "stopped", yoiu should see a "green arrow" light up in the single light casing, allow you to "turn left".

For instance this is clearly visible, when you drive line 92 from Herrstr/Stadtgrenze, and ha sto make the left turn into Sandstr.

At some places, i.e Seegefelder Str, when you should make the left turn into the terminus at Galenestr. the "green arrow" is replaced with an diagonally white line in the casing. It's very hard to "see this diagonal white line", since the intersection is very big, and the phase of the light is very short!

Despite this, you have no doubt when to make the safest " left turn" at the intersections with trafficlights.

This isn't described in the manual. Pity!

Interesting topic.

Can see most points however can not see any logic in the American approach of generally slowing right down (or stopping) for train crossings that are indicating GREEN. That's what the lights are there for.

As for the argument that the 'lights may have failed', well that could apply to every junction in the world! Would we always slow down or stop at every green light, just in case the lights have failed

Modern traffic management systems have double redundancy 'fail safe systems' so that if anything happened to the lights at a train crossing (or any traffic light junction), all lights will signal red.

In my area of the world (North East England, close to the border with Scotland), there are dozens of train lines and train crossings, if I stopped or slowed at a crossing that was green, I can guarantee I'd have a 7.5 tonne lorry smacking into my behind.

Bizarre logic from our transatlantic cousins

dr1980 schrieb:

1) Are right turns on red traffic signals permitted?
2) Do public transport buses have to stop at railway crossings before proceeding?

Both are fairly common in North America and I'm wondering if they are the same or different in Germany.

Thanks

To 1) Generally it is forbidden. BUT if there is this sign:


You MAY turn right if you do not interfere with other traffic. You have to stop at stopping line and if no traffic is in sight you have to stop at line of sight and if again no traffic is in sight you may turn right. (same behavior as at a STOP sign.)

to 2) no one has to stop at railway crossings.
But: railway traffic always has priority.
BTW: Most of the railway crossings in Germany have full or half fences.

Here (Alberta, Canada) you can make a right turn on red and in some situations (turning from a one way onto a one way) you can make a left turn on a red.

Thanks Emil, good to know about the legal meaning of a green right arrow in Germany, in Canada, the green right turn arrow is a "protected" right turn, meaning you have absolute right of way over other traffic and pedestrians, so no need to stop like a stop sign.

Found this Thread while looking for something different (the search is awful...) and this seems for me to end with an open and unclear situation.

In Germany we have two kinds of green arrows:

1. As additional, round, single traffic light beside the three "normal" ones. This will, as every directional traffic light, indicate the protected turn. Only a green light without arrows could mean that you will either have to care of pedestrians when turning right or left - or even with oncoming traffic when turning left. Some areas are more famous for unprotected traffic lights than others. Now I live in rather "unprotected" Northrhine-Westphalia. In Hesse most traffic lights had separate, protected lights when turning left.

2. As a squared black plate with printed arrow (what Emil showed in his posting). This one was not valid in Western Germany until the early 90es, when the traffic laws of FRG and GDR were merged. Since then it slowly found its way to the West but is still much less common than in the East. It allows carefully proceeding into the intersection during red light and turning right after coming to a stop.

r2d2 schrieb:

In The Netherlands... a lot of intersections are transformed into round abounds to cut down on the traffic lights.

I must say that I miss the flash camera's on the simulator. Fines should be paid with your tickets selling kickbacks..

Here in Edinburgh many intersections are created by replacing roundabouts. Roundabouts IMO are better, promoting driver awareness instead of just sit there and speed off on green!

@Amy Rose - They could be running late I saw a Megabus (Stagecoach) Coach flying (not literally, of course ) down Princes St Eastend yesterday afternoon and assumed he was late as he sped through a red light!! I thought I was the only one who did that on the busiest street in town. (in games only as I have no driving license whatsoever - although I consider myself an excellent driver).

In my Province, you are legally allowed to turn right and left, but not straight on a red light with or without the accompanied right turn signal

Corey9212 schrieb:

Here (Alberta, Canada) you can make a right turn on red and in some situations (turning from a one way onto a one way) you can make a left turn on a red.

I have a street in Toronto where you can turn left on a red, it was strange since other traffic looked at me that I was going through the red but a sign a few polls away said you can.